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Outside of Lima | August 13, 2008 [ 9:48 ]

Peru - Russia sign deal to repair MIG-29 fighter jets for $106 million


Living in Peru
Israel J. Ruiz


In an agreement signed between Peru and Russia, it was established the Andean country would invest $106 million in the reparation of a fleet of MIG-29 fighter jets, said Peru's Defense Minister, Ántero Flores-Aráoz.

According to an official press release, it was announced the agreement between Russia and Peru was signed in the presence of military personal, civil authorities and the country's Defense Minister on Tuesday at an Air Force base in Chiclayo, one of Peru's northern coastal cities.

"We're off to a good start in the recovery of the Armed Force's operative capacity and this agreement is a good sign of that," affirmed Defense Minister Flores-Aráoz, stating it had not been easy to negotiate the pact with Russia.

"We've established excellent conditions in this deal and because of that I don't doubt that our pilots, our technical personnel and Peru in general will feel proud of this step, which puts us on the path to having Armed Forces in appropriate operative conditions," Flores-Aráoz said.

Peru's Air Force has a nineteen MIG-29 fighter jets it purchased from Russia and Belarus in the late 90s.

It was announced that these nineteen jets are to be repaired under the "Basic Defense" program.

The program is to spend $654 million on these types of projects until 2011.

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119 Comments

# Splaktar says :
August 13, 2008 [ 10:18 ]

Nice to see that the pilots will be able to fly them without having to wonder if they will fail or not.  Most of the Peruvian aircraft that I've seen are in pretty poor shape (ie: I wouldn't want to risk my life flying in them).

# J.Berger says :
August 13, 2008 [ 12:02 ]

$106 million for repairs.  How much for routine maintence to KEEP them in working order?  Probably zero. 

# Alan says :
August 13, 2008 [ 21:03 ]

One has to wonder how spending hundreds of millions of dollars maintining a fleet of MIG-19's is in Peru's national interest?

What are they going to do with these planes? Invade Ecuador?

It seems a Peruvian airforce would better serve the nation by principally assuming a civil avaition role to support law enforcement and assist in search and rescue.

Military readiness could also be maintained through a more versatile fleet of duel-use helicopters and very light combat jet aircraft and turbo-props, not the expensive, lethal attack aircraft like the MIG-29 which offers more parade value than it does to maintain the security of Peru.

# Oliver says :
August 13, 2008 [ 22:29 ]

Not against Chile's military power. Peru has to bear in mind that in order to keep a balance and therefore peace it must maintain a reputable armed forces. If chile has combat ready planes, tanks and ships and Peru has nothing we will never be able to fully claim the sea at the south and chile could walk in anyday just like russia did to georgia.

# jcwong says :
August 14, 2008 [ 6:20 ]

Please repost your comment. Refrain from insulting people JC Wong.

# Splaktar says :
August 14, 2008 [ 8:34 ]

No need for name calling and other childish insults.  They aren't allowed here.

19 jets is not an invasion force.  These are jets to be used in defending Peru's borders and citizens.  They do need to be kept at least generally operational (ie: less threatening to the pilot to fly them than they are to Peru's possible enemies).

# jcwong says :
August 14, 2008 [ 13:50 ]

splaktar?

your comment had nothing to do with the article.
what would they repair them for? not to be operational? to look at them?
what are chile's f16s for? defensive purposes? who wants to invade their lovely land? (the planes were sold w/o pilots by they way maybe you can rent some) anyway south of iquique theres not much of interest.

childish comments meant to be offensive are not allowed either

jcw




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# rice and sugar says :
August 14, 2008 [ 14:15 ]

I agree with Allan that the FAP (Peru's air force) should also include as duties taking care of regular Peruvians during emergencies (natural disasters such as the Earthquake in Pisco, et.c)

Oliver, how likely is a war with Chile? What are the probabilities? Are these probabilities higher than the odds of Peruvians dying of starvation in Pisco?

It must be hard to make a decisio on how to spend a budget, but in the pyramid of basic needs: food and shelter are still first.
Unless the likelihood of a war with Chile anytime soon is realistic, then perhaps the money should be geared to rescueing Peruvians, rather than threatening Chileans or Ecuadorians, etc.

# CapitanDan says :
August 14, 2008 [ 14:40 ]

Many good ideas here in the forum. I believe that Peru is wasting its money on the Migs, when it can purchase as Alan says dual role helicopters for much less. The French, U.S. and the Russians possess helicopters that when properly armed are a very formidable weapon.They are much more affordable and useful in emergency situations. There are very capable hand held weapon systems like the Stinger missile that can take out the Mig 29. A Mig or F16 doesn't make the Ultimate offensive or defensive weapon. It is only a segment of an elaborate weapon system Peru can not afford. As for the disputed waters off the coast let the world court settle this. Let Peru take the first step to sanity by making a peaceful gesture and scrap or sell the Migs to the highest bidder.Chau My Friends

# Splaktar says :
August 14, 2008 [ 16:08 ]

Peru cannot afford to sell off its military and become the Switzerland of South America when there are countries in South America that are stockpiling arms and taking very aggressive tons in the political arenas.

How much do those attack helicopters cost?  Is it less than $106 million to buy 19 of them?? 

Who is going to buy old, unrepaired, poorly maintained MiG 29s in today's market?  Terrorists? I can't imagine a major country that would want them anymore.

# Stop the insanity! says :
August 14, 2008 [ 17:47 ]

Peru needs to start thinking like Costa Rica.  Stop wasting money with trying to "keep up with the neighbor (Chile)."  Instead sell the 5 subs, the 19 MiGs and take the $654 million and invest it in a decent educational system.  Peru cannot possibly outspend Chile in arms.  Why not try to beat them in the marketplace -- starting with building the best educated workforce in Latin America.  Even if they repair all 19 MiGs, they would last 15-20 minutes in an air-air encounter with Chile.  The avionics on the F-16s delivered to Chile are far superior to that of Peru's MiGs.  Stop the insanity! 

# CapitanDan says :
August 14, 2008 [ 18:19 ]

Splaktar, Whats wrong with being the Switzerland of South America?SmileThe Swiss have limited resources, but have a very high standard of living. They are well respected worldwide. Every male to the age of 45 is in the Military. They even keep there weapons in their home.I wouldn't mind living there except I can't figure on how to get this boat up to lake Geneva.WinkKidding aside my friend,Helicopters can be purchased at less than 10% of the front line fighters. The real problem with the Mig 29 is that it is at the end of it's useful lifespan and the incidence of failure and maintenance become astronomical. There are over 30 countries that still use the Mig 29 and would probably use these for parts.No major country would want them because they are outdated. I think I know someone in Caracas who has plenty of dinero who would probably buy them. Also maybe the Russians with their new found wealth may take them back and trade for some helicopters to garner some good publicity. They could use them for training the missile crews. As for the countries stockpiling arms to enhance their stance. As they divert there resources towards this means Peru grows stronger by better utilizing it's resources. Chau my friend

# Splaktar says :
August 14, 2008 [ 19:26 ]

Yeah, Peru grows stronger in that case until they get invaded by Venezuela and Bolivia.  Finally Bolivia would get an ocean and Venezuela would have access to both oceans and more.

# Phillip says :
August 14, 2008 [ 19:42 ]

Peru and Russia should join forces.

# CapitanDan says :
August 14, 2008 [ 20:35 ]

My Friends, The jungle and Andes are our greatest defense line. Much better than the French Maginot Line. They would bring  a slow death to any invading army. Worse than Napoleon's march through Russia.Bolivia has so many internal problems I can't see them causing any problems.The few mountain roads from Bolivia could be blocked and defended easily.In case Chavez does try to invade Peru , all we need to do is buy a few old Panama tugs paint them black and fly the stars and stripes and cruise them off the coast of Venezuela. Chavez Paranoia will force him to rush everyone to the coast to await the EEUU invasionLaughing. As for Russia, Take what you can and be happy that China borders them. Chau Friends

# Oliver says :
August 14, 2008 [ 22:37 ]

Well war with our neighbours is something that Peru has always had to face. We have apple land (third largest in South America) and our expansionist neighbours dont Chile and Ecuador.

The fact is that Helicopters are no match to fighters. They can be easily pick off in from a greater distance and from higher in the sky. It would be like shooting ducks for the chileans and their latest missiles. Mig 29 is already in our arsenal. A fighter force is a necessetity of any country. If you can not protect your borders, dont worry about your people because someone else would be killing them or feeding them.

The simple fact is that 106 million is really nothing in defense spending. Peru spends much less than its neighbours on defense in terms of GDP. Our planes NEED repairs. Our tanks need replacement and so do our subs. There are no Andes in tacna and arica. Peru can walk in through the desert anyday or specially night. Since their tanks have night vision capabilities. Alan is a sensible spender. No doubt there are poor people however 106 million is nothing to alliviate this problem. But 19 jets are at least a deterrent in the sky for Chile.

Chile might not recognise the courts decision in regards to the maritime border. Furthermore they are also trying to change the land border in south. Peru needs to have capable armed forces in order to protect its borders. We are not Switzerland.

# CapitanDan says :
August 14, 2008 [ 23:25 ]

Oliver, Why the Fear? When was the last time their was a war with Chile? Do you think the Bolivians will mount their Llamas and attack us? Tanks, Aircraft and ships must be co-ordinated by a sophisticated com /intel/sat system to be effective. I can't see spending any money on weapons that are outdated and ineffective against Our neighbors weapons. It is like using a condom with a hole in it. It makes you feel good but is useless.The latest Tow , stinger missiles will render these high priced toys useless. You could get hundreds of these missiles for the cost of the repairs. The war with Ecuador was over some jungle and the war could have been prevented by a world court settlement. If I was personally to attack Peru. I would sneak several hundred special forces troops ashore and attack com centers, transport centers,dock facilities , power plants. I think you get the idea.This would be more devastating than any of these countries could do with their high priced toys.I have spent over 30 years in the military with 2 different countries and have used these weapons with more than satisfactory results. As my writing this response can attest to that.I didn't say Peru was Switzerland, but wouldn't it be nice.Clean,Free, Prosperity and no poverty. Please allow me a dream. Chau Friend

# CapitanDan says :
August 15, 2008 [ 0:11 ]

I have just been e-mailed by a friend who monitors this forum , that Chile is supplied and trained in the use of stinger and tow missiles. So my friends it would make more sense not to rebuild a weapon system that can be destroyed by the air and ground. Peru either has to totally rethink it's Defense program and possibly start over again.Peru's military has to be more innovative ,mobile and serve a dual purpose. More like the EEUU national guard. Trained to fight and protect the people in times of national disasters. Chau Friends.

# Oliver says :
August 15, 2008 [ 0:12 ]

I am all for dreaming but I am also a realist.

Chile has state of the art weapons. Mig 29 is not outdated nor useless in fact it could take on an F16 any day. No doubt stinger missiles can be a terrent. But they are more so against helicopters and then no country on earth would have an airforce. An airforce once again is a necessity of any country.

As to the prospects for war. Unless you have your head in the sand. And I know u dont. Peru and Chile relations are not the friendliest. There has always been much envy and competiviness. from both sides. The best way to maintain peace is to have a detterrent armed forces that guarantees peace. Afterall we are just human beings. If we see that our neighbour has something that we want or need and they cant defend it we will take it. (Maybe we is not the correct word, but there are definetly people like that in this world and sometimes they are heads of state).

The war against Ecuador is not over some jungle. Any square meter of territory must be respected. Dosent matter if its the local tip that they want to take. As a matter of fact there a contracts to explore the area for oil and there is a likelyhood that oil could be found there.

Rest assured that Chile's army I hate to say it but they have the satellites, they have the stingers, they have the tanks, the training, the planes, the ships and the submarines. Peru as a soberign country can not sit idle and hope that chile does not want to go to war. It might happen or it might not. But we have learnt our lesson from the war of the Pacific.

# CapitanDan says :
August 15, 2008 [ 0:55 ]

Oliver, Unfortunately I was informed by a friend who follows this forum.That He has trained the Chileans in the use of these weapons (tow and stinger missiles).The Migs are no match for the F-16. There are counter measures, but again it takes co ordination between ground and air units. The Migs offer less opportunity to employ these countermeasures and escape. On paper they look equal ,but the workmanship, reliability and systems are inferior. The Russian Migs in every major war have suffered severe losses against EEUU aircraft. From the 1973 Israeli War to the Iraq war. As I said before , spending this money is a waste. We need to either start from square one and spend Billions to revamp or rethink our national defense systems. A haphazard or quick fix is no remedy. I am also a realist. I would not send my troop into the gates of hell wearing cotton underwear and tennis shoes.Thinking that this money would deter a highly trained and equipped military is sticking you head in the sand.Chau Amigo

# Oliver says :
August 15, 2008 [ 1:14 ]

Understand your point. MIG29 vs F16 is better left for other forums. The argument here is wether the $106 million was well spent. In my opinion yes. 19 Mig 29s will now be operational were as before they weren't. It is a small investment to make to ensure that you at least have an airforce.

Spending Billions or starting from scratch would be nice. However Alan Garcia has decided to take the sensible approach. Bring our armed forced upto an operational and ready level with the equipment that we already have. If Ollanta had been elected we would have already secured a billion dollar loan from Venezuela bough Sukhoi 30's and picking a fight with Chile.

# jcwong says :
August 15, 2008 [ 6:20 ]

capitan dan
have you and your fbi friend ever heard of korea, vietnam and iraq (oops forgot afghanistan), the technically superior weapons made in the usa always seem to suffer setbacks in the real world (look into the abrahms tank)while the russian weapons industry has done just fine for many decades,
stop trying to tell the world (including peruvians) that when faced by us technical superiority (with chilean pilots!) they should just roll over and play dead.
your position is a bit arrogant isnt it? even if you spent 50 years in the us military, what do you know that the rest of the world doesnt?
do you really think the peruvian military cares?
jcw

# jb says :
August 15, 2008 [ 7:50 ]

It really doesn't matter if the F-16 is better than the MIG.  Peru needs the following for the proper protection of this country.
1. A well equipped, well trained and well paid national police force.  The PNP needs to have a "military type" element to combat the narco-terrorists operating in the outer provinces.  This combat PNP element needs helicoptors for rapid deployment.  They also need to protect the borders from intruders.
2. A strong coast guard to protect their fishing industry from poachers.

Peru NOES NOT need a 1st world air force or navy.  Five submarines?  Nineteen MIGs?  Dump 'em and educate the population with decent schools.  It is a national embarassment what we have for teachers and a school system.  Pay the teachers a living wage and demand performance and hold them accountable for the future of Peru.  The future of Peru is in an educated work force that can compete in a global economy -- not brute force labor that is a commodity. 

# Splaktar says :
August 15, 2008 [ 9:40 ]

Again, education is a major need in the country, but it cannot be fixed with $106 million.  Money is already being invested in this, but it is not the main answer to the problem.  The problem is hiring practices and testing to maintain that teachers actually know what they are teaching.  Currently there are too many teachers who got jobs because they know someone or paid someone off.  Not because they actual want to be teachers, like teaching, or have any knowledge at all.  The answer is also forcing SUTEP to provide quality teachers and not the worst in the world.

# CapitanDan says :
August 15, 2008 [ 10:11 ]

Oliver you are right about this not being an F-16 VS.Mig issue. Upgrading these planes is not the only issue. It's training. In Korea both the Mig and F-86 were comparable. The EEUU trained pilots though had a kill ratio of over 10 to 1. Are the Russians going to fly these? Experience counts. Its like putting someone in a car that has a Manual Transmission that never drove a manual against a professional driver. As for all the wars mentioned the NATO weapon systems were far superior look at the results. JCWong You can call me arrogant or whatever. I just hate seeing money thrown down a rat hole. I also hate to see our brightest and bravest young men sacrificed like "The Charge of the Light Brigade".I have lived so long in life because I know my weaknesses and exploited my enemies weaknesses.As for knowing anything. I have lived the life not googled it. What you see is often not reality. I just want to make sure that if we do go to war our young brave men will not be abandoned. I hate memorials.Chau Friends.

# jb says :
August 15, 2008 [ 10:12 ]

Splaktar, we are in violent agreement!  Laughing

# rice and sugar says :
August 15, 2008 [ 10:34 ]

Splaktar,

I have worked in science centres in the North America, and currently I work revising science curriculum for high school (in NorthAmerica). I agree that there are many teachers in Peru who get their jobs through "or the influence of someone they know, or as you say because they may have paid off someone in the ministry. Believe me, I have seen teachers who are not knowledgeable, who are ignorant, both in the US and in Canada. To be a teacher you don't need to have a masters in science.
HOWEVER, the problem with the education system in Peru is not the teachers. (I agree too many teachers). The problem is the curriculum does not reflect the reality of the country! In Peru, I was forced to memorize the entire periodical table in chemistry. This seems like a good thing, right? But, what can a Peruvian do with that knowledge? How does it help me in life? In North America, kids use the calculator since Gr. 4, they don't know how to multiply numbers without calculators. BUT, if they want, they can become successful engineers who gets jobs. Engineers in Peru are excellent, hard working individuals. But there are no jobs for them, they end up driving taxis. So, the problem in Peru is the POVERTY, UNEMPLOYMENT, HUNGER, etc. The education system cannot create jobs. It is not the teachers' fault!

# Splaktar says :
August 15, 2008 [ 11:28 ]

The teachers cannot pass basic exams.  The studies that have been done on the education system in Peru put it last in developed countries.  I didn't say anything about jobs, just quality of education. 

I agree that the gov't has a large responsibility here, but the teacher's Union (SUTEP) has been extremely counter productive in everything they have done.  Every time the gov't tries to improve things, SUTEP goes crazy, burns cars, steals gov't exam answers, assaults police officers and gov't employees, blocks traffic and negatively effects the economy, etc.

Giving SUTEP more money ($106 million) is not going to change their behavior or cause them to provide better training to their members.

# jb says :
August 15, 2008 [ 11:36 ]

The Peruvian educational system (starting with SUTEP) needs a bulldozer taken to it.

# CapitanDan says :
August 15, 2008 [ 11:40 ]

Now you guys have done it.Yell Completely unrelated to the subject.SmileThe only similarities I can find between the money for the Migs (defense system) and the Education system are they are both rat holes that need to be re evaluated and assesed from the bottom up. Both need fixed immediately. Chau Friends

# rice and sugar says :
August 15, 2008 [ 11:48 ]

Splaktar,
I agree with your last statement

"Giving SUTEP more money ($106 million) is not going to change their behavior or cause them to provide better training to their members."

Instead of giving money to SUTEP, the money should go elsewhere. I got all my elementary and secondary education in the Peruvian public education system. I had good and bad teachers. When I came to North america, I was laughing with how easy I found it to go to university and get good marks. It was a lot easier than solving math equations at the UNI (Universidad Nacional de Ingenieria). Again, as I told you before, it is not the teacher's fault that the education system is not working in Peru. SUTEP is the union, The Ministry of Education needs to change the curriculum. THe Ministry is the employer.

As far where the money goes, the argument here is whether the money should go to buy airplanes for the FAP, or whether the money should go to education. If it is for education, my opinion is that the money should go to change the Ministry's curriculum, and to buy more microscopes for kids, more classroom tools for the children! NOT for SUTEP. 

# Mike says :
August 15, 2008 [ 12:50 ]


Since none of the air forces in South America, except perhaps Brazil, are significant, perhaps the money would be better spent on ground defenses and ground-to-air missles for defense.

The MiGs and other aircraft Peru has wouldn't last too long against anyone who invested well in weapons systems.  Strategically locating and maneuvering ground and naval forces would probably make for a better and more successful defense.

# CapitanDan says :
August 15, 2008 [ 14:37 ]

Ah Mike, You are a person of reason. Your idea is a good start, Thank You. Chau Friends

# Jorge says :
August 15, 2008 [ 16:44 ]

Very good that finally we Peruvians are taking good care of our Army, this is just one of several military projects to recover not only the military balance in relation to our neighbors but also a natural consequence of the grow of our economy.Peruvian economy has been growing strongly for the last 8 years and it is predictable that it will keep steady on that path. 9% 2008 7% 2009 6% 2010 and 6% 2011 (MFI source) expected to go from a GDP of 135 billion and 35 billion American  dollars in cash at the end of 2008 to about 180 billion of GDP and 60 billion dollars in cash to the end of the actual regime in the year 2011. Finally talking about education, do not get misguided thinking that because in average the Public education in Peru is one of the worst in Latin America it also means that all education is bad 30 % of the education of Peru is Private education and is rated to be a world class education not to mention that the government is for first time in the last 10 years establishing the basis of a more competitive and professional public education facing not only SUTEP but also infrastructure limitations.

# Splaktar says :
August 15, 2008 [ 17:42 ]

Yes, it is great that private education is available to a small % of the population.  But public education is what is available to almost all Peruvians outside of Lima.  It is not 'one of the worst in Latin America', it IS the worst.

Anyhow, I do agree that this is something that is good to do when the economy is doing well.  It has been neglected for many many years due to poor economic conditions and the need to spend more money on the poor at the expense of defense budgets.

# Oliver says :
August 16, 2008 [ 10:02 ]

I find it diffiuclt for someone not to understand that jet figherts are a necessity. Yes they are quick and can reach any part of Peru in minutes. Air defense can not do this. Do not be shy. Air force and MIG 29 are a necesssity. Education is our long term weapon. But in the meantime we need planes. Which we already have and are in need of service.

# Mike says :
August 16, 2008 [ 11:06 ]


Oliver, you are correct.  Those jet fighters can rush to the area and get shot down immediately.

A weapon is useless if it cannot be used effectively.

# Oliver says :
August 16, 2008 [ 11:57 ]

Under what pretence do you mean that they will get shot down immediately? yes if they are not serviced and upto opertaional standard yes. They will get shot down immediately. From my understanding this planes after this measly spending will be fully operational. Chiclayo will also benefit from learning how to service the planes and Peru will be able to at least defend itself. DEFENCE IS NECESSARY. PERU NEEDS TO SERVICE ITS PLANES OTHERWISE THEY WILL NOT WORK.

I can understand people saying that money should be spent elsewhere. but money IS being spent elsewhere. Defence spending is not cheap. but we need to do it. A $106 million investment is nothing compared to other countries in this world. If we do not and chile spends 1 billion per year we might as well invest on a nice bright red carpet for them to strawl into Arequipa/Lima.

# jcwong says :
August 16, 2008 [ 14:26 ]

splaktar thinks we're the least educated people in the world and
capitan dan thinks we should stick to american weapons because they're
superior than the russians'. what can your typical peruvian adult say to all that?

i'll remind those interested that a man named odria established a very good public education system in the late 40s(my parents are a product of it both professionals in peru and usa) that unfortunately deteriorated in the late 80sfor many reasons (sutep, apra, economic collapse,etc). prior to that another guy named velasco redirected the entire armed forces towards russian weapons (air and land) and italian/german sea vessels, rather successfully considering that chile has not been able to build up its armed forces to a superior level until this decade (about 30 years after) even though its economy did very well through the 90's and early part of this decade. again the decline came for many reasons but the fact that many of those weapons can be made operational again for a reasonable amount of devalued dollars speaks highly of their original design and manufacturing standards. (even the t55s! i'm sure theyll be put to good use when their replacement arrives).

i'm a product of the peruvian private school system and i (and as many many others) found going through the american college sytem a rather easy process with our peruvian education, I've worked in the states and europe and i feel quite grateful to my parents about the education i received in lima, it was up to international high standards.

in any case the news coming form the ministry of defense is nothing but excellent news and we should all be happy that our country will have adequate (within its means and regional context) armed forces within the next 5-10 years. whos knows even the reforms that the ministry of education is trying to implement will pay off in the near future, improving the quality of public education dramatically, in the meanwhile as the economy grows more people will be able to afford the private system for their kids.

saludos

# CapitanDan says :
August 16, 2008 [ 15:31 ]

To LIP. Why didn't my Rebuttal to these answers show up. I didn't make any comments that were offensive or crude?Chau Friends

# David N says :
August 16, 2008 [ 17:09 ]

Besides a coast guard and enough troops to keep order should there be unrest, Peru needs no military.  Building strong alliances and friendships with more powerful nations would deter Chile and Ecuador from any aggression.  

19 fighter jets in disrepair are worthless, and like another poster said, are just there for parade value.  Government officials need to stop feeding their egos and patting each other on the back, and spend the money where it is so desperately needed, like building homes, providing water, or feeding millions that don't have enough to eat.  $106 million now and $654 million until 2011 is not pocket change, and could put food on the table for countless millions of Peruvians living in poverty.

# Oliver says :
August 16, 2008 [ 19:07 ]

Peru needs no military lol

# CapitanDan says :
August 16, 2008 [ 19:52 ]

JC Wong, I do not advocate EEUU weapons. I am advocating the best use of Peru's limited Military budget.FYI the Migs were purchased in 96 for 350 Million Dollars. These were Used Aircraft built under contract by Belarus. The were at the end of there useful lifespan then. That's why we never see them in the sky.Peru bought 26 , Where are the other 7?Before Peru purchased these jets ,there were no jets in south America. Even the Russians were upset by the purchase and refused to warranty these jets. I would pray that the Russian's would take pity on Peru for the raw deal Belarus handed Peru and give Peru new Migs. Now with this new spending Peru has wasted a Half Billion Dollars on Junk. These Migs at this stage will need more repairs to keep them flying. All aircraft when they reach the Migs hours need a complete rebuild from the airframe up. I understand this money is just to get them in the air again.This is like Painting a rusted car. It shines , but by the next year has more holes in it than Swiss Cheese.Peru needs to invest in the troops and work it's way up. Not throw more money down a rat hole with these migs. Chau My Friends

# Oliver says :
August 16, 2008 [ 20:15 ]

What do you suggest Peru does with these planes then?. Sell them as they are (why would anyone buy them). Scrap them or fix them and have them operative.

# CapitanDan says :
August 16, 2008 [ 20:47 ]

Oliver My Friend, We both want what is Best for Peru. I would ask Russia for military Aid and request they assume these old aircraft for newer models with warranties as a sign of Peace and Friendship. The U.S. might not like this, but like you I am more concerned for Peru. If the U.S. see's this they may rush in an offer new F16's to Peru to further cement their Trade`Deals. Peru is the Diamond in the rough at this point in history. These World Powers know this. Let Peru use this to it's advantage. Chau My Friend

# Splaktar says :
August 17, 2008 [ 10:39 ]

JCWong, I did not say anything about the education that Peruvians received over the last 40 years.  To be specific I was referring to the education that Peruvians are receiving now and over the last 3 years (worst in the developed world).  This is something that Peru as a country will have to deal with for quite some time (thousands of poorly educated people filling jobs).

Interesting data there CapitanDan, Thanks.

# Mike says :
August 17, 2008 [ 11:46 ]


You know a brand new, fully loaded F-16 runs about $40 million.  So for the price of $654 million, Peru could have 16 state-of-the-art fighters.  Not run-down pieces of scrap.

# Mike says :
August 17, 2008 [ 11:52 ]

My mistake - the new F-16D costs ~$19 million.  Double that figure to 32 state-of-the-art fighters.

Or just buy 20-25 of them and use the rest of the money for upkeep and training.

http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=103


It seems the me that Peru entered into this contract without any sort of thought about how to best keep the air force up and running.

# Splaktar says :
August 17, 2008 [ 14:54 ]

The problem is they already bought the MiG-29s under a previous president, many years ago.  So the $325 mil they paid for them is not available now.  Only the $106 mil for repairs.

Thus the choice was:
1) Buy 4-5 F-16D and spend the rest on re-training, etc.  End result is a squad of 4-5 Jets.
OR
2) Repair the existing 19 MiG-29s and not need any retraining.  End result is a squad of 19 Jets.

Many people here point out how useless MiGs are in aerial combat with other fighters and with anti-aircraft weapons. 

I think people are missing some of the other major uses for them, where they are massively overpowered.  This includes policing Peru's skies against drug smugglers, kidnappers, spies, etc using civilian aircraft.  This includes rapid recon and support of troops/police who may be tracking/investigating/fighting against rebels or other small groups.  This allows for some of the actual recon that is needed to make sure that the FARC isn't setting up bases in northern Peru.  Most of Peru's skies are not covered by radar, so recon by jets is currently one of the only ways to have any idea what is going on in remote areas.  There are a lot of good uses for jets other than air to air combat.  Many of the anti-aircraft weapons are not available to rebels. 

New radars were recently installed in Peru that cover a good bit more (not nearly enough) of the Peruvian airspace.  What do they do if they see an unidentified aircraft in Peruvian space?  Even the fastest helicopter is not going to quickly intercept a small private jet.  But something like a MiG could be quickly scrambled and investigate/neutralize the problem before the aircraft was able to penetrate important airspaces like Lima/Arequipa, etc.  With all of the unmanned spy aircraft these days, it may be important for Peru to be able to shoot these down if needed as well.

Obviously if there was a full scale war, a ton of things would need to be upgraded/purchased, but we aren't there now and the gov't isn't acting like it either.

# jcwong says :
August 18, 2008 [ 4:12 ]

boy everybody here sounds like used car salesmen! or ex lockheed martin employees, 19 million for a fully loaded f16 with ac and premium stereo! lets order 100! in white+red!!
mig29s with rusty aluminum/composite frame, oh my lord!!!
somebody get the jumper cables!!!

but seriously now, peru has different types of mig29s (se's in different conditions, etc) approximately 18 years old bought from belarus when the entire soviet bloc went bankrupt in the early /mid 90s (under what conditions we dont know), consequently the member countries were desesperate for cash and countries like the ukraine and belarus sold lots of military equipment to anybody and everybody, why the russian kept their planes in such disrepair is not clear to me capitan dan, as you know there was no independent belarus until the collapse of the soviet union (meaning all armed forces operated a common command).

i doubt it the peruvian planes will get the same upgrade (no details will be given of course)as the planes owned by the russian air force (currently being upgraded) but nonetheless they will have common features and weapons, and of course will be in optimal flying conditions. who knows the long term plan maybe to expand the fleet, but i dont think theyll us.

to put things in perspective (sorry to extend my comments), a small
fleet of first class russian mig29s is not a bad thing to have (for a medium size, developing s.a. country with unstable/ambitious neighbors, local and foreign drug lords, etc). i hear those peruvian pilots and technicians are not so bad either. and who knows, 19 becomes 40 and so on. $116 is not the large sum of money some people imply, it's only
73 million euros and in any case the peru has to convert its dollars into
assets, like everybody else, or pay down their debt.

best wishes to all, particularly the peruvian air force.

jcw

# Jorge says :
August 18, 2008 [ 13:19 ]

Remember that the entire budget for NBE to re vamp Peruvian Army is just about 2% of our national reserves in cash (for the present year) and 0.01% of the accumulate GDP for the period of 2008-2011 so it is really a very small amount of money to spend for our safety not to mention for assuring the growing importance of Peru in South America economic arena.

Talking real about the “experts”, that don’t give any chance to the Mig 29 in a fight against the export edition of the "invincible F-16” (to this case is all MIG -29 worth’s for) I would remember them, that the MIG 29 is the faster interceptor able to defeat any f-16 within the range of combat its fire hurt, if they don’t show up within the range they are defenseless.
 Also, F-16 can be destroyed by a good radar system in combination with a mobile missile weaponry, some people call this strategy, maybe we won’t get santiago (as we could before) with our Mig-29 but for sure no enemy won’t get even closer to Tacna if we engage in a total war, so yes indeed, we need the Mig 29 operative and upgraded to the SMT standard for now.  Also we will buy the T-72 to eventually face the Leopard, the Lyon, the cats…etc etc and several brigades fully armed with state of the art antitank systems and a navy with new helicopters and radars so we could use the ottomatt missile system more accurately at our 8 frigates. That is NBE not that pretentious as some other armies too overrated claim, because they are too  accustomed to diminish the willingness and indeed the real possibility that our soldiers and us (civilians) are able to fight to change their army’s  motto, if war comes real (“we know it is something no one wants and it won’t ever happen again”)

Finally, to the foreigners that are given opinions about how to better off spend Our money, I remember them that chile, Ecuador Colombia, Venezuela and even Brazil are poor countries too, all of them buying weaponry just in case.

# CapitanDan says :
August 18, 2008 [ 14:51 ]

So Jorge, If your friend jumps off a bridge ,then you will follow? SmileWe foreigners with Opinions love Peru and have families and friends here. I for one have seen too many wars and would like to spare my adopted children from it's Horrors.AS for the spending on these Toys, explain that to the Hungry. We do not have to worry about the enemies from beyond our borders as much as the disenfranchised and hungry within. I hope I am wrong. Chau Friends

# Jorge says :
August 19, 2008 [ 14:27 ]

I agree with you capitanDan that the war is a terrible situation we won’t like to face, and definitely not too lose, as you said, you and your adopted children can get aside of that eventuality if you wish (nothing to blame on).  Also, I agree with you, that money invested in weaponry will be better off spent fighting against poverty, but that is another issue could be discussed between the countries involved on due time although is proven it failed even when it comes from two parties that are far more rational than us . Finally, about your analogy that “If your friend jumps off a bridge, then you will follow” it doesn’t have relation with I have said, rephrasing logically what I have said is; if a neighbor has the capability and wants to push me off a bridge then I won’t allow them to do it so I have to get ready to face that possibility.

# CapitanDan says :
August 19, 2008 [ 14:42 ]

Jorge, What I meant about the Bridge was, That we shouldn't follow the course of our neighbors. Peru is still suffering from the earthquake and other internal problems. Our worst enemy to fear is Ourselves. Chau My Friend

# rice and sugar says :
August 19, 2008 [ 14:59 ]

Splaktar,

Going back to the education theme above -how do you explain that Peruvians perform so well in the math olympiads this year (2008)? They scored quite well among many other countries.

I agree that our Peruvian education systems is crap. No microscopes, no chemical tools, no physics labs, etc. How can one really learn without any resources whatsoever.

My 13 yr old niece got all of her education in a Peruvian little escuela publica (public school). She went to North America, and despite the fact she was just learning English, she aced all of the subjects! She was laughing at the education in the US. She was immediately placed among the best in the whole school board! She said to me, "in Peru, I had a lot more competition than this!"

Oh yes...the MIGs...I don't know much about them, except that 101 million dollars is a lot of money that PISCO people will never enjoy.

# Splaktar says :
August 19, 2008 [ 15:08 ]

Just like anything else in Peru, there are really good schools and really bad schools.  The problem isn't that there are no good students in Peru.  The problem is that on average the schools and the students are not where they should be.  This includes all the provinces and poorer areas that don't get the same funding as those in the better parts of Lima.

As for money, it has been talked about here a few times that money isn't the problem in Pisco, Ica, or Chincha.  The problem is proper management, workers, materials, etc.  There is plenty of money, so much so that it's been disappearing into people's off shore accounts and pockets.

# onebeachbumm says :
August 19, 2008 [ 15:32 ]

Obviously freedom of speech doesn't exist in Peru, not even in the blog of an electronic magazine?  Too bad!  I will keep my comments and thoughts to myself as they may offend someone like the editor or "One of the readers"  because i don't think as they do.  Sounds like communism/dictatorship to me!  

# rice and sugar says :
August 19, 2008 [ 15:41 ]

Splaktar,
I have to say that your last arguments sound reasonable. Perhaps you are right, perhaps the money destined for the reconstruction of Pisco is ending in the pockets of corrupt managers, etc.
This is sad, and this is why Peru is a third-world country, despite our resources. 

# jcwong says :
August 20, 2008 [ 4:50 ]

bravo jorge, i was starting to feel a bit lonely.
common sense will always keep us away from jumping
off that bridge, and if anyone wants to push us
we'll have our russian tools to make a strong argument.
jcw

# visitor says :
September 1, 2008 [ 15:45 ]

CapitanDan is chilean, that's why he does not want peruvian airforce to have operative planes. If you love peace, prepare for war, that's the best deterrent. If you knew a bit of history you would know that the same nonsense you are saying was what some peruvians were saying before the war with chile. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

# jb says :
September 1, 2008 [ 15:53 ]

Stop the nonsense discussions about a war.  Chile is not going to attack Peru.  They would criple themselves financially.  No president (of Chile) would be so stupid.  And to the knucklehead who insists that Peru needs MiGs for anti drug interdiction flights?  Whiskey, Tango, FoxTrot, Over?  An unmanned Predator can do this at a fraction of the cost.

# CapitanDan says :
September 1, 2008 [ 16:47 ]

To Visitor, I am a Guest in Peru, that loves Peru and has Friends,family in Peru. I have friends in Chile like myself. I can't understand this fear among neighbors.These monies could be used for many more beneficial means.I totally agree with JB . Let's stop this Nonsense. Chau Friends

# Phillip says :
September 7, 2008 [ 22:45 ]

Great Plane I pray Peru also gets Nuclear Weapons & Unites with Russia.
Russian MiG - 29 Fighter Jet Plane:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv2Qh4MFHiQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr3BsvvPtpo

Chile we are coming for you. Hahaha.

# CapitanDan says :
September 8, 2008 [ 1:44 ]

Phillip, I now know you know nothing of military technology. The problem with the Mig is the Radar and heat signature. Those great big air intakes make it's radar signature stand out. It's lack of heat dissapation on it's exhaust give it a bigger signature than downtown New York City.I have used the Stinger missle and it hones in on this like a bear on a bee hive. People like you Phillip usually stand in the background and urge on the the real combatants ,but you don't have the Cajones to be in the front lines. That's why the Russians lost out in Afghanistan. The stinger dominated the air.  I can attest to this because unlike you I was on the winning side. Chau My demented and  ignorant forum contributor. El Capitan

# Phillip says :
September 8, 2008 [ 1:59 ]

LOL US lost to Vietnam.

Yes I agree with you being demented we finally agree with something.

Iam not in the Army I have Family Relatives in the Army.

And Russia has the biggest Non Nuclear Bomb in the World at the moment.

# Phillip says :
September 8, 2008 [ 2:02 ]

This comment was deleted

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# Phillip says :
September 8, 2008 [ 2:19 ]

US also lost to Somalia and I am sure they lost many other wars hahaha. Look at the mess the US has caused in the Middle East. Your US Army is useless. All military Power with no brains. Lets see USA invade China now that I love to see but USA has no Cajones, They only enjoy picking on 3rd world Countries. Go on USA Mess with Russia I really pray you do.

# Phillip says :
September 8, 2008 [ 2:23 ]

Russias gift for the USA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYllJ3UFs6Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhAydMLv6AA&feature=related

# jcwong says :
September 8, 2008 [ 3:02 ]

boy! this forum has to be renamed the looney tunes page,
capitan dan you used to be a bit more rational,
you sound like a cnn cheerleader now.

nobody is attacking the USA in this part
of the world, even chavez is doing his bit
for the american economy buying all of those
4x4s nobody wants.

but there are more choices out there than
pepsi or coke out there, let us decide.
take care
jcw

# CapitanDan says :
September 8, 2008 [ 11:58 ]

JC and Phillip, How can anyone be rational when people are still homeless and lacking the basic needs from the earthquake and Millions of dollars are being spent on these Toys. The Real Threat may not come from outside Peru's borders, but from within. It's this Marie Antoinette attitude of the government that is starting to stir up the people. As for the ludicrous idea of War between the EEUU and Russia. There will be no third world, second or any world if this happens. As for the largest bomb. Mosquitos kill more people. There are more terrible weapons than Nuclear , that would be unleashed. I do not advocate war ,because all sanity and reason is lost. I have seen some of these weapons and fear for the ones that survive the first strike.Chau My Friends

# Phillip says :
September 9, 2008 [ 0:24 ]

HAHAHAHA The Worlds biggest Bomb is a joke well I pray Russia fires it straight at the USA. I pray all Countries with Nuclear Weapons who are anti USA unite with Russia to fire thier bombs at both USA & Europe. I pray the Middle East gives USA Europe & Israel HELL. As for the end of the World I welcome it.

# mericorps says :
September 9, 2008 [ 8:23 ]

Hey Dan,

My dob biscuits are getting stale, hurry up.

Dont feed Phillip, he is a troll, he has a pathalogical need for attention, addiction actually, combined with a social retardation that makes him unable to manage the difference between positive and negitive attention so he says outragous things that he does not beleive just to get us to react, feeding his psychosis.

I am sure if he seeks help, with medication and intensive therapy, he can learn to control his disorder, but until then, I suggest avoiding enabling his addiction.

# CapitanDan says :
September 9, 2008 [ 10:25 ]

Ah Mericorps, A voice of reason. Chau Friend

# Phillip says :
September 9, 2008 [ 11:23 ]

>This comment was deleted

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# Phillip says :
September 9, 2008 [ 11:29 ]

>This comment was deleted

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# Phillip says :
September 9, 2008 [ 11:43 ]

This comment was deleted

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# Phillip says :
September 9, 2008 [ 17:16 ]

Please write something constructive Phillip.


-Living in Peru

# Phillip says :
September 9, 2008 [ 17:17 ]

Please write something constructive Phillip.


-Living in Peru

# Phillip says :
September 10, 2008 [ 0:26 ]





This comment was deleted



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# Phillip says :
September 10, 2008 [ 1:02 ]





This comment was deleted



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# Leonardo Stumpff says :
September 14, 2008 [ 18:12 ]

Regarding the modernization of the Migs 29  realmente it is not a necessity in a country as poor as  Peru , exist a great deal of missinformation in the articule itself regarding Peru and Chile, Chile is a stable and modern country in contrast of Peru , Peru is very unestable with a lot of unrest and social conflicts , Peru in a persistent way has pursue a relentles armamentism and a politic of agresion , also when the articulist criticize Chile , he forget and cover Peru`s blatant armamentism and disregard for his neighbours, he also forget o cover up that Peru is armed  not with stones but  with hundreds of T 55 , 6 submarines , 16 warships, 19 Migs 29 , Mirages 2000, Mirages 5 , Shukkois, A 37 , now your suposely peaceful Peru for what need those weapons ? i don`t think that is to combat poverty and , obviusly is to pressure Chile or Ecuador into submission and to gain territory , but Chile is by far more develop and tecnologically advanced than Peru, therefore Peru can only threat Ecuador , peruvians will never be able to take from their minds the trauma they carry about chileans, therefore nobody can say nothing if Chile try to defend itself, we have no choice .

# Phillip says :
September 14, 2008 [ 21:43 ]

Peru will destroy Chile. And Peru is better off economically than Chile so dont make me laugh. Chile is nothing in comparasion.

# Don Carlos says :
September 14, 2008 [ 23:01 ]

Ah Phillip, Your hatred to any superior individual or country is quite evident in your inept and hilarious responses in this forum. We chileans will not attack peru ,because we own too much of it. It would be like burning your own house down. We unlike you are responsible citizens of the world and believe in co-existence ,even with inferior inbreed people like yourself. Your responses can be attributed to an individual who likely was fired from Wongs for being to ignorant. Look for a job at macdonalds the gringo's will overlook your ingnorance as a lacking of culture evident in most third world countries. By the way when did Peru win a War. Hmmm, Si, thats what I am talking about. You are impulsive, arrogant and ignorant and it shows in you attitude towards your neighbors. We will never meet on the field of battle ,because your kind is the one's that urge the others on to slaughter.

# Don Carlos says :
September 14, 2008 [ 23:11 ]

Excuse me, I forgot. I employ many Peruvians who pick my grapes on my farm. Yes, They can't find work in your great economy.They like living here, because they have security, a warm bed, food and I pay for their childrens school. That's something your great country of Peru can not provide it's own citizens.Clean up your own house before you try to attack anothers.

# Phillip says :
September 14, 2008 [ 23:35 ]

Chile superior to Peru hahaha. Go back to school.

Peru will DESTROY  Chile:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXbD2BzMqNU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbbX3lqzEz8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elG1yf9F2iE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeyV4QVwgBw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TmISsYT6WE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tducfn0mE7c&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-_rTqvX-nI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiOQk_VvmZU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bh37GVAC2g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jTWJiBJK4s&feature=related




Chile will cry when Peru Strikes hahaha

# Phillip says :
September 15, 2008 [ 0:02 ]

Peru will win against Chile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYWTYxHAdR0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC_WgfKg7yY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNmBKnNSlPw&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8FHRzu5t2g&feature=related

# Phillip says :
September 15, 2008 [ 0:24 ]





This comment was deleted



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# Phillip says :
September 15, 2008 [ 0:33 ]

Leonardo Stumpff
Peru will step on useless Chile. Peru is by far better armed.
Your comments are PATHETIC. Chile is no comparasion to superior Peru !
Arriba Peru Carajo!

# Jorge says :
September 15, 2008 [ 14:47 ]

I never thought that Chileans were allowed to wear the "Don" at their names; it used to be just reserved for no Chilean people in South America. Anyhow, Things have changed and yes some of the old rotten people from South America feel now; they have the right not only to wear something they are not and never will be but also to hire humble people and feel that all people from that country should be humble too, well my dear "Don" you can dream about it as long as it last, that according at how it goes will be a very short time.
Best
Don Jorge
P.S; I had a Chilean Nanny who raised me at the 70s. His son was a carabinero and she used to send him even soap and toothbrush in that difficult time. She was a very nice lady and we always remember her with care.

# Phillip says :
September 15, 2008 [ 15:38 ]

The truth about Chile hahaha:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDHO_XoLyTQ&NR=1

# Don Carlos says :
September 15, 2008 [ 15:44 ]

Jorge, My name is Don as in Donald, like Bob  is to Robert. No title.I am named for my English Grandfather.LaughingAs for you having a nanny. I had a mother . No surogate mother. As to money , I have been lucky to inherit much. But unlike the spoiled rich my grandfather and father made me work, first in the fields, then in the Winery. I spend much time in Lima and have a modest house there.That is why I feel Peru's biggest problem is itself. Have any of you driven through Chin Cha? It doesn't seem the people there are reaping the benefits of Your wonderful economy. How many of these people will fight for Peru? No where in Chile do we have as many homeless as I have seen in Peru. It has been mentioned in this forum by many intelligent people unlike yourself ,that Peru if it does not attend to it's poor may need those planes to bomb it's own people.

# Jorge says :
September 15, 2008 [ 18:35 ]

Ok Donald (as the poor nephew of rich Mc Duck) I am happy for you, your Kind, your upbringing, breeding, your British grandpa and so on. I am sure that people in the whole world will agree with you that being a chilean is the best could happen to a human being, so they will cheer with you up chi chi chi lelele ole and off course will agree with you that you got “a never defeated army", and also that you and your people are humble hard workers with an unmatched patriotism. If something to say….. good for you  About  foreigners that believe they have the right to say what good, bad is, and how it should be done in MY COUNTRY I just say, that’s why we have to buy weaponry and be always ready to fight. I don’t really care if all my country fellows will be with me, although I am sure they will be there, even the Chinchanos.  

# noname says :
September 15, 2008 [ 19:01 ]

I see most of the posters here should take the time to read some history. I know these members are not supposed to know and are not rquired to know, but since they want to be able to express an opinion, I honestly think they should do some research before writing any comment or opinion in here.

Learn about the "Guerra del Pacifico" and learn how it started.

And don't take me wrong. I am against Peru investing in war and not taking care of other important matters first, but what I don't agree at all is  what some members here say about Chile not being a constant threat to Peru. Bottom line is that Chile has no water and no energy and they will do anything to get it. Everyone knows that!

If Chile has no intentions on invading Peru, then why do they have all this super powerful army and satelite and all?... please!!! parecen nuevos!!!

READ!!!

# Don Carlos says :
September 15, 2008 [ 20:03 ]

No Name,My English family was involved in the war. That started over unfair taxes. Sort of the Boston tea party of the south.It snowballed into a war. I don't think anyone can say that during the time Lima was controlled by Chile more Peruvians died than did during Fujimori's presidency.Should the French, English and Germans still worry about the past. They have joined together as common sense dictates for there prosperity and defense. The Mexicans and Texans fought a war in 1848. Do they still worry about each other invading each other.Chile always has had a strong and Benevolent Military. I am not a proponent of frivolous Military spending in Chile or Peru , because it takes assets that could be used for alternative means that are more productive.. As for water Chile will be building nuclear powerplants soon under the guidance of the EEUU. These will generate ample power and water. What is Peru doing?

# Phillip says :
September 15, 2008 [ 20:13 ]

Peru is ready to step on Chilean cockroaches,   LOL Come on Chile we dare you.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4405402.stm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GHHLVRu7qs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGmEqKRvQhY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izCqbAx89uQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz_VPDi4yO0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eYc4BKOkHI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQQRqkdEq8Q&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqjy_OiJsOk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCnqkiYdDQA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V02UO8TSpLQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w75iNqGFFhQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lhP0tshYNk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiOQk_VvmZU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEXdaIhTSic&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQwNNCsWpkA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QIPvcGs9w4&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXbD2BzMqNU&feature=related

# Phillip says :
September 15, 2008 [ 20:37 ]



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFXoZoE5QiI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRWlPzwuqss&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqjy_OiJsOk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otueKDtB4p4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5RX3jL74U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkCFdeXvjr0&feature=related

Peru has just spent $829 Million Dollars on its Military.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm





# Phillip says :
September 15, 2008 [ 20:54 ]

bm21 peru rockets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6mFnlxFIDc&feature=related
BM-21
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM21

Misiles de la armada del Peru:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFXoZoE5QiI

Armada Peruana
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx9yQDPY5SY&feature=related

Mig-29 Fulcrum Peru

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dutk6tE7quU&feature=related

FUERZA AEREA DEL PERU - EXHIBICION DEL MIG-29

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPpfuOOlGAw&feature=related

Spot Escuela Naval del Peru
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh6gE4FFJmo

FFAA...Poderosa Fuerza aérea del Perú 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxR3Lx3gLs4&feature=related





# Don Carlos says :
September 15, 2008 [ 20:58 ]

Phillip, Your comparison of Chileans with cockroaches is amazing. Cockroaches are intelligent , resourceful and industrious. It is a reliable assumption by experts throughout the world that they would survive almost any Holacaust(nuclear or natural).You Phillip on the contary lack any intelligence and as others in the Forum have described you ,(troll, psychotic. etc.). Just looking at your previous post shows you can not verbally express yourself, because you are deleted more than any other person in this forum.You are an embarrasment to this forum and Peru.

# Phillip says :
September 15, 2008 [ 21:06 ]





This comment was deleted



Livinginperu.com readers shall not post or transmit through livinginperu.com any material which violates or infringes in any way upon the rights of others, which is threatening, abusive, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, profane or otherwise objectionable. Any conduct by a reader that in livinginperu.com's discretion restricts or inhibits any other participant from using or enjoying livinginperu.com will not be permitted

# Phillip says :
September 15, 2008 [ 21:19 ]

True facts regarding Chile.


CHILENOS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYWTYxHAdR0&feature=related

Pais de m osea chile tripa decertica
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEIFQhAq4LI

Dedicado a chilenos que escribieron comentarios insultandome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKiHsDodZ2k&feature=related

Para todos los chilenos llorones
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxRmqH0sizk&feature=related

Chilenos estan en nada que les queda imitar pobrecitos que pena

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS_S8ateSyE&feature=related

# Don Carlos says :
September 15, 2008 [ 21:55 ]

Again Phillip your lack of intelligence shows. Cockroaches do not live in Excrement. I would compare you with the common house fly. You eat **** and bother people. I see no reason to continue this debate, because you offer nothing substantial to the forum and and you can not adequately offer any constructive ideas. So this is my last comment till I see someone with constructive verbose. Adios

# Phillip says :
September 15, 2008 [ 22:05 ]

The Homeless & the Poor  in Chile LOL



http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/11/071115-AP-chile-quake.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiZDBMXvKo4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc1UGRfETaA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNxI8j-9WcI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jpY7DRMajM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RUXaHomOI0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7OVkvHM9-Q&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AGKq9Scrqo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MswYXpX6xew&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBCnbSHmhOE&feature=related


# Phillip says :
September 15, 2008 [ 22:10 ]

Info on Cockraches that are found in sweres lol.

Cockroaches Order Blattodea

Contains families and 4,000 species. These leathery insects usually have an Dual, flat shape that lets them squeeze through tight spaces. The head is often covered by a shield-like pronotum. There are generally two pairs of wings. The forewings are usually tough and cover large, membranous hindwings. Most cockroaches live in tropical regions. Less than one per cent of them are pests, adapted to human habitats, thriving in warm, unsanitary conditions, and often carrying disease.

cockroaches

Cockroaches mostly eat dead or decaying organic matter, including bird and bat guano. Their main defence against predators is that they are highly Sensitive to vibration and can run fast, but some also spray or ooze toxic chemicals. Female cockroaches produce sexual pheromones to which males respond, males may produce aphrodisiac secretions to encourage the female.

Mating occurs back to backe and sperm is transferred in a packet. The females up to 40 eggsg which are surrounded by a tough case that may be dropped, stuck to the ground, or carried about, partly projecting from the And of the cockroaches abdomen. Metamorphosis in these insects is incomplete.

Live bearing cockroaches

These large insects often have well-developed, pale )rown wings faith dark markings. In many species of large live-bearing cockroach, however, the females are wingless and burrow under wood and stones. Life-cycle in some species, courtship rituals involve the production of sounds.

Males of Nauphoeta cinerea,  for example, make sounds by rubbing a ridged part of the forewing against the hind corners of she pronotum. Most species reproduce by producing eggs that develop inside an egg case. The egg case is fully extended from end of the female's abdomen, rotated by 90 degrees, and then drawn back into the body to be brooded. Occurrence Tropical regions. In a range of habitats including rainforests and caves. Some species are reared as laboratory animals.

Common cockroaches

Most species in this family are brown, red-brown, or black-brown, with varied markings. They are highly active, can run very fast and fly in hot conditions. They usually hide during the day, coming out to feed after dark. Some species produce repellent chemicals that can cause skin rashes and temporary blindness. They eat a range of organic matter and food scraps, regurgitating already digested food and leaving behind their faeces and a characteristic unpleasant smell.

Males may have special glands on their back, which secrete chemicals that lure a mate into a suitable position for copulation. Females can produce up to 50 egg cases, each containing 12-14 eggs. The egg cases may be deposited oh, buried in, or stuck to a variety of surfaces. Occurrence mostly in Topical and subtropical regions. Pest species are found around ports warehouses, sewers, and rubbish dumps.

http://www.insightempire.com/cockroaches/

# noname says :
September 15, 2008 [ 22:29 ]

Don,

It seems like you have heard something about the actual facts... but your writing lacks of more precise data.

For now, I will just ask you a question that will automatically put you to read some more history.

What was Bolivia's involvement right before the war started?

And trully, the fact that your ancesters were involved in the war, don't really tell the forum something relevant, on the contrary, I personally get the perception that you just say that cause you think that gives you more power of speech?... well, it doesnt work like that!  the fact that my father was a well known historian doesn't necesarily means I couldn't be an ignorant.

Also, your example about Texas and Mexico has very little value, if that was true, then tell me why US is building a wall in between? why US being the super developed country it is, doesn't follow your concepts of properity and defense.

About your question on what's Peru doing about power? well, Peru is doing nothing of course, I am sure you heard the phrase "El Peru es un mendigo sentado en un banco de oro..." well... no need to worry... AND THIS IS WRONG!!! I couldn't never share that kind of mentality, but oh well! that's the way it is and yes it is a problem to have too much and/or have too easy, because on top of Peru's goverment not doing what they are supposed to do (plan ahead) the worst part is that our benevolent land generates the envy of those who are not so lucky, being Chile, of course the closest example.

Lastly, have you seen your president having a conversation with Hugo Chavez last nite? OH MAN! that's scary funny... .She goes... yes Hugo.... Ok Hugo... of course Hugo... on her cellphone.. GOD HELP US!!!!  I know that "trio" Hugo, Michell and Evo are up to not good... you can't try to cover the sun with one finger... who are you trying to fool?


# Oliver says :
September 15, 2008 [ 23:52 ]

Is this topic still going?

Peru is a sovereign country and its government has decided to make a decision to repair some of its airforce planes. Some people will agree some people will not. Expats and Chileans will of course disagree because to them it is a waste of money. We appreciate the care that you take in Peru and agree with you that in a perfect world this money could be used for other means. However we do not live in a perfect world far from it. In fact we live in a very unstable world where things change rapiddly and natural resources are in very high demand. And we would all have to agree that Peru is very rich in narural resources. So we need to protect them. Your countries are not perfect far from it the US citizens that live in the gettos of LA and NY certainly could use more education, welfare or your government could even start to pay off the trillions that it owes. Similarly Chile that was going thru a good moment has poverty and is facing problems with inflation etc. They could use their money for other means. Peru like your countries and all other countries has a right and to invest in its military. Like all countries do including yours. As for your comment about peruvians being happy working for you. Well that is very lucky for you because they did not choose where they where born. Just like you didnt choose to have an english grandpa!. big fucking deal as if pommies are a great thing!. hahahaha. Sounds a bit elitist in view. But anyway, it could have easily been you that was born poor and how would you be then ah? struggling to feed your family or as u are now pointing the finger and say "you are poor!" my daddy was english. Sounds very childish mate. Peru has nothing and will never owe anything to chile. In fact we wish your country was far away from ours but unfortunately this is not the case. The fact is we dont like you as people we find you arrogant, materialist, selfish and self centered. But we do not tell you this but we just know it. Never will you find a peruvian going on and on about their country how a chilean does, to us it sounds ignorant and insecure because we do not need to brag about our country that is bigger and more beautiful than yours, has a greater history, is in a better geographical position, has better natural resources, better food, better music. Better people and better everything else. We dont tell you this because we have no need to but it pisses us off when chile tells us this its like for example a really short and ugly woman all of the sudden goes to the hair dresser and tell everyone just how pretty she is. She is still small and ugly just had a better haircut.

# Don Carlos says :
September 16, 2008 [ 0:53 ]

Yes Oliver, I could have been poor and my Grandfather reiterated this point many times. I worked the fields just like the farmhands till I went to school. My grandfather couldn't get me into an English school because they looked down on us South Americans. I did attend and Graduate from a University in the EEUU. This allowed me to bring new ideas back to Chile. By the way my wife is Peruvian(Argentian stock). She is almost as tall as me , blonde and quite impressive in stature.We may be considered Elitest ,but we pay above average wages to our workers and consider them family.You may wish that we Chileans are far away ,but in reality we are as close as your next breath and as important, because we control so much of Peru's vital services in this economy. Why is it my friend that when you meet a fellow south american in say, Miami we are friends. Then when we return to our respective homes we are adversaries. I am now in the processs of purchasing a home in the EEUU(Florida), because of people like yourselves.Here in the EEUU I can live and raise my famly without the BIGOTTED AND RASCIST VIEWS of people like yourselves.

# noname says :
September 16, 2008 [ 2:58 ]

Don said... "we control so much of Peru's vital services in this economy..."

So interesting!

I wonder if this is coming from the same person that earlier said something about countries joining together and BLA BLA BLA!!!

You see, my point exactly! to me a chilean will always be a chilean... as a nazi will always be a nazi... no pun intended!

And you are wrong twice more... first, me as a Peruvian living in US, I go across chileans and I get to talk to them but that's as far as it goes... I dont know why would you generalize saying that all southamericans are friends when they find outside their countries.
Secondly, I feel sorry that you were looked down at some point in your life, but I can tell you that I have never being looked down for being southamerican, all the opposite, I guess is just a matter of where exactly do you come from... and I am not talking about which country this time... I am talking more about culture.

Hey, here is a free tip for you. wait another two months before you get into buying that house... you can still save some more if you wait just a bit more.

# Oliver says :
September 16, 2008 [ 5:16 ]

Mate we dont care how blonde you are, what your grandfather did etc. It is so superficial it is not even worth talking about. I am not a racist. In fact far from it. But you seem like a person that looks down on people because they are not blonde or have as much blue blood as you do. Really mate get off it. And you are welcome to buy a house whereever you want if fact I really dont give a damn. And the fact is that we in Peru do not need chilean investment. We are getting enough of that from Brazil, China, Canada, US etc. So you are welcome to pack up all your stuff and take it back to chile.

# Phillip says :
September 16, 2008 [ 12:28 ]





This comment was deleted



Livinginperu.com readers shall not post or transmit through livinginperu.com any material which violates or infringes in any way upon the rights of others, which is threatening, abusive, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, profane or otherwise objectionable. Any conduct by a reader that in livinginperu.com's discretion restricts or inhibits any other participant from using or enjoying livinginperu.com will not be permitted

# Jorge says :
September 16, 2008 [ 12:46 ]

I didn’t know that our opinions will be more accounted if we showed up all our nobility titles; the old one or the new one or perhaps how educated we are; sure, not only a world class university but also a top ten B school or if the  grandpy of one of my ancestors sold Vancouver to Vancouver itself because before him it was a city founded for him (and had his name) or if another ancestor of mine signed the foundation act  of an American City known as San Francisco or maybe that other grandpa was a knight of the Malta Order or if half of people from Lima descend from  the owners of all the Industries and commerce of South America Including Santiago not to mention it was ruled for centuries by many of our ancestors .
As far as I know almost all Limenos were "white", well educated (from the first and best university of America at that time) and held some kind of nobility titles at the time of the Pacific war, still, it didn’t preclude them to lose the battle of Lima against the roto soldier, why? This supposedly superior breeding people (including two of my ancestor) died and lose the battle? It was just because we all Peruvians as a united country didn’t prepare for a war neither bought the weaponry to win.
We all know how complicated, diverse and beautiful is Our country and how difficult is to overcome our well known shortcomings as a nation in formation, still, we are very optimistic, we already reached the critical mass to make it happen, and indeed send an Applause to the Chilean in this foro who is going back to I don’t know where to do I don’t know what, yet happy for you, hoping not hear from you and your Blondie wife (a final question Donald,do you think all the other chileanitos will be willing to go to miami just scared for some peruvians in a given foro, please let me know!! maybe we could get boca raton for you and your kind jejeje) Best in your trip.


P.S in the battle of Lima 10,000 Peruvian Militia and soldiers died, over a city of 100,000 people (population of Lima at that Time) honor to them Who win not only the Peruvian honor but also showed the peruvian spirit to be the best when it is the worse. The equivalent now will be to lose 1,000,000 men in age to fight in an equivalent battle for Lima nowdays, not to mention that the war continued for several years at the Andes (Our Pachamama- I forgot to mention also that  the Lima's finest families hold the Huayna capac's blood too).

# noname says :
September 16, 2008 [ 12:55 ]

Let's just wait for him (Donnald duck) a bit more.... let's allow him to read and learn more about the true facts about how the Guerra del Pacifico started.

We will be here

# Phillip says :
September 16, 2008 [ 13:26 ]

Peru does not need little pathetic Chile. Chileans get out of Peru. True Peruvians despise you and we are truly looking foward to war with you.

Links to prove Peruvians hate Chileans LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DQ_T21duxk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_FjFSAJWws&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNmBKnNSlPw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC_WgfKg7yY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5CCU3MtdMA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9ERwbAAfd4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqnLV1mgyC8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNsv35kLpls&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiatPmHYhHI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd7IwG8sBd8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yDgIpwamw0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znhY8mHG4NQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqqeA-Osh60&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWuwvivxx60&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPRvDQSgB-k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHeXz77XWwU&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OghZnyJ0KQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FLfpn0E1Co&feature=related











# Phillip says :
September 16, 2008 [ 14:13 ]





This comment was deleted



Livinginperu.com readers shall not post or transmit through livinginperu.com any material which violates or infringes in any way upon the rights of others, which is threatening, abusive, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, profane or otherwise objectionable. Any conduct by a reader that in livinginperu.com's discretion restricts or inhibits any other participant from using or enjoying livinginperu.com will not be permitted

# Phillip says :
September 16, 2008 [ 14:29 ]

Jon
I dont live in USA LOL.
I also work unlike you.

# Phillip says :
September 16, 2008 [ 15:52 ]

Is USA & UK really so great & better than everywhere else here are some reasons to make one wonder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJhW85fZ9M8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MINW84mnB7E&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mhjU_q3tew&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebsrus75SyI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxkCuVpn-Ec&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD4VKWDt2uk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWyygiyPbdA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6Q14HOBThM&feature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlZzsf4aIqw&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V387TW6_3hI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wZUnlUu_-M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvCtEIgNpnw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa1M6Axgjuo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y4dK3dItjI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQmTDdTt0ag

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaUx6ZnC_5s&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8q0CSitXq4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkHlf7vqL1s&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FsMFCRQDV4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95SRtAyrHBg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INVQZSrOH0Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8IADD8zpSI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcetr1g2vRA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjiIsHezZjw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AfbfPnhU7k&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYI73TCewI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeAlH1pTtyI&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvU7K1yng50&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ErZiqFI4Pc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vp9B5VcWZs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If-qmYZ9raY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD2O1PX6YTM&feature=related


# victor says :
November 26, 2008 [ 1:24 ]

First thing don't forget CHILE has intentions to invade other countrys if they have to. They have the support they need for all means INGLISH AND EUROPEAN COUNTRYS who are convinced that this nation has the rigth to defend  but there agenda has other intentions they will get what they want.dispite who has reason or not,as  in the past happend  there people know ther liders  they  are irelevant when  come to arms they still belive in hitler and there control and invation other territories is a contry of neoliberalism and control there army is an industry it has one only  gool getting more if they don't have
there economy is at the level of adventage to PERU but not it won't last , all the time every thing change just as PERU need's take an action and prevention dispite the coments we are  a contry of intererst for then just like ECUADOR and the war still remain fresh

# jcwong says :
November 26, 2008 [ 3:57 ]

I'm curious what DON CARLOS Laughing is doing in Peru, he's obviously a notch above the rest, what with his superior genetic background and outstanding chilean and usa education he clearly deserves to be in a better place.
Maybe he finally left?

thank god
jcw

I have not found a web site yet about peruvian affairs where
some chilean guy doesnt drop by to tell us how superior they are,
why is that?, dont they have their own web sites to tell each other about their greatness?

Is there a peruvian reading these lines that gives or has ever given 2 shxts about our neighbor to the south? Lets take a poll !

# mark says :
September 7, 2009 [ 16:37 ]

Im a bit shocked at the lack of memory or historical precision in this discussion. The war of the Pacific, was not the last war fought with Chile, not strategically, at least. Just in the 90's, Peru fought a short war with Ecuador, that had weapons supplied by Chile!! Who was in fact, a Guarantee Country for the peace accord. 

Lets get some strategic perspective here. Peru is not Switzerland, because there is NOTHING in Switzerland that, in theory, you couldnt develop in your own home country (I live in Switzerland...). Peace and mountains allowed it to becamo a financial center and manufacturing center, but the basis of that is the fact that it there is no real profitable outcome from invading Switzerland. You end up with a lot of cows and nice towns with lakes..

Peru has been, since the start of the Republics in America, the constant target of wars and invasions, that have consistently stripped it from not only land, but profitable resources. The War of the Pacific with Chile was about Sodium Nitrate (fertilizer), lucky them, they ended up with the largest copper mine in the world, in the process. The current sea limit, is more about the fact that fish coming from the Humbolt current are mature in their peak numbers in front of Peru, not Chile, and they need that extra spot, where they actually fish most of their production. The war with Ecuador was about oil, oil that we already know exists (which is now under difficulties as Amazon indians are blocking the possible production - the Perenco lot for example), and gold, that we also know exists there in enormous quantities scattered through the mountain range. Much like a fabled Incan cornucopia, Peru still has seemingly unlimited resources, and no, there is no stopping the neighbors from slowly continuing their drive to get their hands on them, one way or another. 

I agree on the need to invest in education, much more, and to invest in health and infrastructure, and I believe this is happening gradually. But none of that becomes sustainable if our neighbors don't keep still. Having Chile arming themselves constantly, is not a friendly gesture, under any measure. 

Having overwhelming deterrent power, is what is desired. We had it for most of the 20th Century, we lost it due to stupid politics and worse economic policy towards the end. At least, keeping a degree of deterrent power is key to ensuring peruvian growth moving forward. 

The premise that Peru can become Switzerland because its poor, and should do like Costa Rica, is misleading and very dangerous. I believe that Peru does need to spend money in supporting their army, but I am sure the USA (which has enough weaponry to destroy us all) can spare buying one F-22 less a year, and give 200 million to feed the hungry around the world...how about that? ..

# Carlos Benavides says :
September 7, 2009 [ 17:23 ]

usa giving $200 million to feed the poor dont make me laugh.
usa exploits the poor worldwide with its corrupt FTA greedy corporate corruption.
HAHAHA.

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